• @LaLibertine Funny…maybe it’s just that particular Subway…the one where I work tends to pile theirs on pretty decently…. #
• @LaLibertine ….Although, I will agree with you on the double meat price….that really sucks. And lessons in topping wouldn’t hurt, either #

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Part Deux of our adventure featuring Heart of Women Spaces and her “pornstitution” myopia….

When we last left, Heart(less) was dispatching Renegade Evolution for the evol slut and sellout and enabler of rape and rapacity that only the God Emperor of Rome would represent in the eyes of the Good Radicalfeminist Womyn.

Now entering, from Stage Left: Jill from Feministe, the blog that a few months ago actually featured Ren Ev as a guest blogger on many topics, which probably steamed Heart(less) that much more, considering that in her mind, only like-minded GenderBorgians should be allowed to post in “feminist’ blogs. The main point of Jill’s post was to challenge Heart’s premise that women who enjoy sex for free (or at least say that they do) are doing a bad deed for women who are actually raped and abused (or those women who Heart claims are raped and abused and degraded by association with porn or prostitution or even a simple male erection.

[Posted by Jill on 11/14/08 @ 6:41 PM]

Huh. So when I have sex with men for free. I’ve never been paid for sex (at least not explicitly — I suppose some might argue that maybe dinner counts). Am I lowering the standards to rock-bottom? I mean, all these women giving away sex for free helps to create and sustain a market for sex, which means that some men will choose to pay for it. Are all of us who have consensual not-for-pay sex now complicit in the abuse and torture of women who are trafficked, raped and otherwise brutalized?

I have very conflicted personal views on pornography (my views on whether or not it should be legal to make and distribute are far less conflicted), but I don’t buy for a minute that a woman who does porn for free because she’s making it herself — in other words, because she’s going to make money off of its eventual sale — is somehow responsible for the exploitation of other women who don’t have that same privilege. Privilege is a tricky thing to navigate, and feminism doesn’t give us clear answers, but in my understanding, neither framework is supposed to be used to beat other people over the head with. Feminism is not a tool to shame other women. Understanding the dynamics of privilege isn’t a way to bring everyone down to the lowest common denominator, or to guilt people for what they have.

We are all part of complicated systems of oppression. We are all complicit to one degree or another; the difference is, some people are outright exploitative of others and seek to cause harm. I don’t know Ren personally, but I read the same blog of hers that you do, and I cannot for the life of me understand how anyone would put her in that category.

And anyway, this post isn’t about Ren. It’s about the systematic exploitation of women. And yet somehow, the villain of choice is a sex worker herself, demonized simply because she doesn’t consider herself to be a victim? Come on.

Now…considering the usual brand of censorship that takes place at Womens’ Spaces, you’d think that that post would still be in moderation….but it was approved by Heart. Probably, because, in her mind, it enabled her to unfurl her banner, clear her throat, and unleash her pixellized wrath, and settle all the scores and vendettas that she had with Feministe for allowing a infidel and a slut like Ren Ev to post there.

The result is this long, windy, and quite telling comment that more than anything else reveals the madness behind Cheryl Lynn Seelhoff’s methods. Just sit back, relax, and allow me to be your friendly guide though this maze of bullcrap….and I’m providing running commentary all the way through just for langiappe and clarity.

[Posted by admin (Heart) on 11-15-08 @ 11:02 AM]

Jill, women having sex “for free” on their own terms in the privacy of their own bedrooms is not on a par with women creating videotapes of brutal, violent sex, or apparently brutal, violent, sex, and disseminating them over the airwaves, over the internet and into the homes and sexual psyches of however many men and boys, and girls and women for that matter, watch that stuff. Pornography and prostitution are “constructors.” We talk a lot as radical feminists, and other kinds of feminists, for that matter, about “social construction”, about the way nothing is “essential,” nothing is “inherent” or “immutable,” in other words, about the way people are not “just born that way.” People are the way they are not only because of accidents or incidents of their births but because of what they see in the world, what they learn in the world. The sexuality of little boys and little girls, of men and women who grow up seeing, or, in whatever manner, end up watching brutal sex in which women are tortured, brutalized, degraded and shamed are in fact having their sexualities *constructed* in that watching. They’re learning this is what sex is, this is what is really sexually exciting and titillating, this *humiliation of women*. This torture of and brutality towards women.

Remember, now, we are talking about “gonzo” porn here, featuring women who actually say that they not only consent to doing such stuff, but say that they enjoy the acts they do…or at least, they act like they do. Some people would say that that probably doesn’t meet the qualifications for rape, which consists of violence that is imposed without the consent of the victim (and usually with direct physical violence and injury. Some people, though, never met the likes of Cheryl Lynn Seelhoff and the Womyn Warriors of the GenderBorg, who have a…..well, a different view about consent and will and human nature.

Also note the implication that Heart raises that young impressionable girls and boys, if exposed to such evil, degrading, and essentially violent sex, will automatically respond that it must be “acceptable” and that that must be the ONLY way to engage in sex…thusly, gonzo porn (if not ALL porn) must be censored or banished to save womanhood and girlhood from the degradation of the male penis. Riiight…like rape and torture of women never existed beyond the tainted walls of a porn studio (or that men have never been abused or tortured or even raped).

Are you putting that out in the street? Are you filming this kind of sex and putting it out there for public consumption? Are you talking about what you’re doing 24/7 on your blogs in the company of, for example, guys who are the creators of extreme SM pornography and magazines affiliated with Hustler Magazine, in the company of various dungeon masters and you name it, all of whom are creating these kinds of materials — brutal, violent, degrading, humiliating sex for public view — for the general public? I don’t think you are. And no, whatever you’re doing, or other women are doing, for free in their own houses is not what I’m talking about there.

Shorter translation of Heart:That’s right, Ernest Greene…I’m calling your ass out right now, you brutal slaveholding rapist murderer male leftist MAN. You might be able to force Nina Hartley to be your concubine and “willing slave”….errrrrr….life partner and wife, and sell your brutal S&M deSade festivals and mass rapes to the public as “consensual BDSM”, and collude with that child molestor/serial racist Larry Flynt in imprisoning women with meat grinders…but we radicalfeminists are hep to ‘ya. And that goes for you too, Kink.com….we know that you were really behind Abu Gharib just fess up and admit it.

I mean, if someone puts a noose up in their yard in a threatening manner, or burns a cross, that person can do time and well they should, absolutely, because they are engaging in hate speech. If someone decorates their home, yard, business with Nazi insignia they may well do time as well. Because our society has determined at long last that at least some forms of “speech” are so destructive, so toxic, so hateful, so murderous, such a blight on the psyche of human beings that as a society we will not tolerate this kind of thing in the name of “speech.” And why? Because this kind of “speech” is only free speech for some. It’s free speech for racists. It’s free speech for white supremacists. Nobody is going to go into somebody’s home and arrest them for drawing their own pictures that only they see or for enacting their own racist scenarios, and why? Because they’re not disseminating that in the public sphere. When stuff like this is widely disseminated in the marketplace and just among the general public without legal consequences or ethical or moral sanctions — in magazines, in books, on the internet, television, movies– the message to one and all is, this is fine, this is good, there is no harm in this, this is all good times, this is free speech. And what gets lost is, for the victims of this stuff, or those who were victims and those who remember, there is no free speech. There is only, again, free speech for racists and white supremacists.

Ahhh…first off, Heart(less), most hate speech laws attempting to regulate away such actions as cross burnings and nooses on trees have been declared unconstitutional abridgments of First Amendment rights of free speech…the very same First Amendment that allows you to render your speech as well. Secondly, isn’t the answer to such “hate speech” not censorship but to simply overwhelm it with speech that promotes the truth and exposes the inherent lies and smears that such “hate speech” inevitably relies on?? Plus, burning crosses and hanging nooses on other people’s lawns isn’t just “hate speech”; it’s also tresspassing on other people’s property and threatening them implicitly….which, last time I checked, didn’t require any notions of “hate speech” to be considered illegal and actionable BEHAVIOR.

Oh…and just because such “hate speech” may be put out on the Internet or on television or in the media does not make it any more actionable merely because it is considered to be “hate speech”. Or, perhaps, you really do believe that people should be held responsible for their innermost thoughts if those thoughts don’t meet some politically correct criteria?? (I mean politically correct as in right-wing, centrist, OR left-wing standards of conduct.) If so, then that makes you, Ms. Seelhoff, to be the very person that “hate speech” laws were created to control and prevent….namely, a fascist.

And all this is to compare neo-Nazis and Klansmen and White Citizens Councilmen to…..gonzo porn starlets?!?!?!

In the same way, it’s one thing, again to do whatever a woman does in private. I’m not saying that what a woman does in private is meaningless– it is not. I think what she does in private is always political. But there’s a difference between that and filming something and sending it out into a world that basically endorses ANY — that means ANY — depiction of torture, rape, murder, humiliation of women.

Oh, I see….a woman’s private sexual affairs should be grounds for political critique and correction if those affairs don’t meet your “feminist” criteria….especially when it is used to depict “torture, rape, murder, or humiliation”.

You blog at Feministe. You know what that’s about. You read your spam queue, you read your incoming searches. You know that haters are out there 24/7 looking for incest materials, torture materials, rape materials, brutal sex, and you know what? They are finding that stuff. And they are getting off on it. And the abundance of it reassures them that there’s nuttin wrong with that, all the cool kids do it, I mean, what are women for, after all, but to be bound, gagged, tortured, humiliated, debased, why, after it’s all done, they put a big SMILE on their face, it was nuttin’ but a thing, you know?

Oh, really??? Does Heart(less) know that much about Feministe that she can read their spam queue to know that people over there are looking specifically for incest porn or kiddie porn or “brutal sex”?? Never mind that they can get plenty of that without ever setting foot in Feministe…or that they could just as well use search engines connected with sites like…Womens’ Spaces???

And what about the millions and millions of men who use the same search engines for the overwhelming majority of porn that displays….well, none of the above?? You know, like…..simple things like….single women masturbating, or couples having vanilla sex, or a couple sharing their spouses with another willing person?? Or, even…two or more WOMEN having sex??? Oh, but that doesn’t even exist in the GenderBorgian mind….ALL sex not approved by Heart IS by nature “brutal” and rape.

I don’t know whether to laugh or cry over your coming here to my blog in your, as far as I know, inaugural comment here, to scold me for “shaming” women and “beating women over the head” and for being a bad feminist. Ha. Bitter and really, really cynical ha. I think in the context of this discussion, your scolding and apparent self-righteousness are absurd. I am thinking about all of the little 12 and 13 year old girls — yes — on Myspace posting photos of themselves in degrading, debased sexual situations and positions. I am thinking of all of the little 12 and 13 year old boys all the way to one-foot-in-the-grave men getting off on what these little girls are posting. I am thinking about the way those little girls and those boys and men have the view of sexuality they do, and of women’s place and women’s bodies they do, in part because the internet, the airways, the movie houses, the theaters, the publishing world are FILLED with this kind of imagery, imagery in which women, again, are gang raped, raped, period, bound, gagged, brutalized, manhandled, cuffed around, and again, this is what women really LIKE, the message is, this is what women are FOR. And so as women and feminists we say NO, some of us, we have to say NO, this is NOT what a girl’s body is for. This is NOT what a woman’s body is for. We were not born to be gang raped. We were not born to be brutalized, tortured, bound and gagged and to LIKE it. This is not the world we created and want. When we say this, we pay for it big time, and why? Because this IS the world as many men and many boys do want it, they want it to stay that way, witness your and my spam queue, witness your and my incoming searches, read the newspapers, watch the news, all we have to do is look around.

WOW….if we are to believe Heart, MySpace is now a hotbed of kiddie porn. Really. All those teenagers in bikinis and short skirts and sports bras…you know they are really attracting the pedophiles. Now, MySpace is pretty damn hard on adult images, enough so that several adult performers have had their journals removed for even linking to their sites or even posting suggestive pictures. But 13-year-olds posing suggestively and allowing themselves to be “brutalized” and “raped”??? Fine with them!!

But all this is a moot point anyway, because, in the mind of Heart, it’s all about the MEN and the BOYZ, who seek women like Renegade Evolution and conclude from watching her that ALL women are worthy of being raped and brutalized…because that is what MEN and BOYZ REALLY, REALLY WANT!!! KIIIIIIIILLLLLLLL THEMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!1111ONETHOUSANDONEHUNDREDELEVEN!!! (Or at least, castrate them and save their sperm so that we can propagate the species.)

The demand that is created by all of the above and similar things and phenomena for brutal, misogynist sex ends up fulfilled for the most part by the most marginalized women and girls in the world — children, the poor, the abused and abandoned, drug addicts, homeless women and girls, kidnapped women and girls, women who endured the “boot camp” of rape, gang rape and incest coming up. They are openly kidnapped and trafficked throughout the world, or because of their limited options and vulnerabilities, they end up trafficked throughout the world in some other manner, and then they can’t get out because they don’t have the power to, because they are sick, because they are debilitated, imprisoned, beaten by their pimps or procurers or johns, disocciating, and so their lives are an endless, enduring hellhole of pain, torture, degradation and shame that many do not survive. The pain and torture will not end even if they are so fortunate as to find a way out. Ahead of them will be years and years of post traumatic stress and physical infirmity, often manifested as severe pain in their bodies, pain for which doctors and health professionals have few answers.

Not that I deny that any of that doesn’t exist….but what about the rest of the women whose porn experiences aren’t even close to being that brutal, Heart?? Do they even have the right to even exist?? What about the overwhelming majority of men who actually consume sex work or porn that do manage to treat their clients/performers with respect and dignity?? Do they fall through the Matrix and get dissolved into the GenderBorg Memory Hole because they don’t quite fit into your fantasy world of Woman-as-Essential-Rape-Victim and Man-As-Thrusting-Penis???

You know, my concern is about the men who are “shaming” these women and girls every moment of every day throughout the world or who can’t wait for their next opportunity to do so. My concern is for the girls and women so shamed. My concern is for every girl whose initiation into sexual encounters is or will be brutal and degrading, humiliating, because boys and men think that’s what sex is about or because the girl thinks that’s what sex is supposed to be about and she is trying to be, as a girl, what she is supposed to be. My concern is for all of the women exited or escaped from the sex trade who battle agonizing pain and debilitation every single day because of their experiences of rape, torture, brutality at the hands of men, some of whom read this blog, and not only one person, there is quite a number of women exited from the sex trade who read here. So when I encounter women who have allied themselves with powerful white, heterosexual men (Hustler and its affiliates) and who every day are making a public statement that really, brutal sex is good times, really torture is good times, when I encounter women who agree with male power that the fact that money exchanged hands equals consensual sex, I’m calling it out as publicly as it is being put out there by whoever is putting it out there, and particularly if they are identifying as profeminist. When I encounter women who do this for free because it’s just so damn much fun, guaranteed, I’m calling that out. Because what they are doing harms all of us — men and women, boys and girls — in a way that what each of us does in private never can, does or will. (Which does not mean we should not be talking a lot about what we all do in private, we should be.) What they are doing is promoting, advocating for, phenomena, practices that shore up male heterosupremacy at its very core. And in the process, of course, they shame and erase all the girls and women in the world victimized byall the men who want and buy and make this shit and who are enriched and benefitted by it, with the result that these girls and women are effectively “beaten over the head” and “shamed” for men’s sexual pleasure. I’d suggest, Jill, that your outrage might be misplaced and better directed to those who end up even more likely to be victimized because, heck, privileged white women do it for free, the cool kids do it for free, put a smile on their face and tell the whole world how great it really is, as a cast of male porn publishers, Hustler Magazine, Larry Flynt and consumers of violent, misogynist imagery applaud wildly. Yeah, that’s helpful. That really brings us closer to our full humanity as women.

Ah, yes…so the very existence of “pro-sex” and “pro-porn” feminists (or simply feminists who don’t manage to drink the GenderBorg Kool-Aid) poses a real threat of “silencing” those “prostituted women” who want to speak “the truth” about how damaging and degrading male sexuality (as expressed specifically by the kind of porn that Heart so opposes) really is….and stupid elitist, “privileged” sluts like Renegade Evolution are simply traitors and sellouts as well as mere cumdumpsters and sexbots and Sparkle Ponies who sell real women down the drain by giving approval to such “degradation” and “humiliation”.

Yeah. Just like those dirty queers and Leathermen and their public sex give real homosexuals a bad name with their spreading of HIV/AIDS and mindless pursuit of orgasms rather than searching for the true liberation of monogamy and “intimacy”. Sounds familiar, Heart???

I suppose the substance of, again, this inaugural exchange between us is somewhat unfortunate. But I tell you what, I lay awake nights thinking about how we might end the hate speech that is pornography and prostitution. Lots of us do. Because this causes grave, grave harm to girls and women. I will never stop saying that, I will never stop supporting girls and women so harmed (ALL of us) and I will never stop calling out those who are publicly insisting that really, it’s not all that. If that means I get called out for “shaming” or “beating women over the head” or being a bad feminist, then it will, I guess. I will point out, as I have here, how ludicrous that really is though. I actually do agree with you that feminism is not about shaming women or beating them over the head, but again, I think your indignation is misplaced. There are feminists who do that all the time, it’s the mainstay of their blogging careers, it’s the way they get people to read — shaming and beating other women over the head — and some of them have guest blogged at Feministe’s invitation. You might check that out.

I don’t do that kind of thing, though. You can scour my blog, you will not find it. And calling out apparently profeminist pornographers is not, I don’t think, that.

And so Heart concludes with the ultimate in projection: blaming “feminists” like Jill for allowing the likes of Ren Ev to “shame” and beat down antipornfeminists, and allowing infidels like Ren Ev to freely attack “feminists” and “silence” them.

Not at all like Heart, who has such an open door policy regarding critics of her philosophy. Just ask her friends, like Stormcloud (inventor of the infamous “Bee Anthology”, and stalker of Ren Ev, who threatened to out her to her family); or Witchy-Woo (who showed off her open-mindedness by taunting Ren Ev for her getting fired from her battered women’s shelter two years ago); or Sis/Pony (who flat out called Ren Ev a “whore” ); or Ginmar (who openly spoke that Ren was denying that she was a victim of rape when she had her nose broken recently) or….the list could go on and on, I’d dare say.

No, she doesn’t shame at all. It’s only the others who do it.

Karl Rove couldn’t have built a fascist movement much better.

Two words in conclusion for you, Ms. Cheryl Lynn Seelhoff (and this goes for the rest of the GenderBorg Collective, too): FUCK. OFF.

[Update: Ren Ev sends her finest middle finger salute here.]

Tags: nothing but the fisk, radfems go wild again

Did I say that Heart was going off the chain?? The previous example of her unrequited love for Sarah Palin was mere appetizer; now, I will present you with the full course meal of the myopia and total all-out whackiness of Cheryl Lynn Seelhoff.

The root of all this was a post that she did over at her Womens’ Spaces blog, which pretended to be a reset of Julie Bindel’s review of Shelia Jeffreys’ latest excrement on “moral feminism” titled, The Industrial Vagina (insert your own puns, Clones).

Now, in another time I will get into Ms. Bindel’s own personal myopias, which include not a wee bit of transphobia and sex shaming and the fetish of threatening to sue critics at a hat (though Natalia Antonova has plenty of detail on that at her blog here).

But I don’t want to pull you away too far, because that would remove the focus from the special form of whackadoodle thought that only the Free Soil Presidential candidate could supply….and this one would count as the grandmama of all doozies.

Let’s set the foundation, shall we?? We begin with the first comment on that thread that Heart posted to her own blog:

[posted by admin (Heart) on 11/12/08 @ 1:55 PM]

Jeffreys includes evidence from studies carried out in Australia and Canada, which shows that the average annual wage for women in brothel prostitution is just £15,000. “We need to take this discussion away from the feminist arguments about whether it is harmful to women or not,” she says, “and look at it as a massive, massive industry where the profits are not going to the women.”

I’m not sure I agree with Jeffreys that we have to take the discussion away from whether prostitution is harmful to women or not; if our argument is that women aren’t getting the profits, then the response will be that women should get the profits and the issue of women’s bodies as a consumer good is decentered, which doesn’t seem like a good direction for us to go.

What I do agree with is, most women don’t make much money via prostitution. It doesn’t help that some (like RE, don’t flame her because I don’t want to get into that here, I’m naming her because it’s the straight up thing to do, though I’m not going to link) agree to be prostituted in (gonzo) porn free of charge, without being paid at all. That really raises the bar for struggling poor women who turn to prostitution/porn for survival! “Oh, forget you, we’ve got women who will do it for FREE.”

Jeezus.

Yup…that would be Renegade Evolution — the God Emperor of Rome, Gozno Porn Queen, and Public Enemy Number ONE (and Two, and Three, and 2, 455) for all good and twoo RadicalFeminists everywhere that Heart(less) is citing for the sin of bringing “prostitiuted women” down by claiming to like “gonzo” so much that she would do it for free.

Obviously, Ren was so moved by the tribute that she posted this to WS (or, at least, it actually made it through the usual firewall that Heart drops on critics of her philosophy (also crossposted to Ren’s own blog as well):

[posted by Renegade Evolution on 11/14/08 @ 2:36 AM (also posted here)]

sigh. context, Heart, context. I, when making content of MY OWN creation, do not get paid. I do it for free because I am making it. Sometimes I have OTHER people to pay in those cases, and why would I pay myself to be in something I am making? When I am in something someone else is making, I get paid.

Lest you forget, I am not just a woman who “agrees to be prostituted in (gonzo) porn”, I am one of those evil souless pornographers as well.

Context is important after all.

However, I might do it for free for other people, because, why yes, while I do like the money, I just like doing it to do it anyway.

Now usually, Heart would either edit out or completely banish commentary from the likes of Ren….but this time, for some unexplained reason, she allowed it to stand….probably to do further shaming and embarrassment, as seen by her curt reply:

[posted by admin on 11/14/2008 @ 3:23 AM]

Context, Ren, context.

The context is the whole entire world, in which millions of impoverished women are being trafficked and/or forced into sexual servicing men, such that they are raped/tortured/brutalized in an ongoing way. They have no choice.

When you — a degreed, privileged, middle class American — revel in your freedom to create pornography free of charge, you certainly do not raise the bar for anyone in the group I just described. That was my point. It doesn’t matter if somebody else makes it and you do it free or if you make it and you do it free, you do it free because you can, you write about it here on the internet because you can, the result is the normalizing of sexual brutality, rape and torture, and all the women who can’t– millions of them– suffer for that.

That was my point. So yeah, context. So far as your personal preferences and likes and dislikes and so on, I don’t think they’re germane to this particular thread.

Yeah…I reserve the right to use this blog to seriously bust your ass for being such a total slut and for selling women down the drain for loving (or pretending to love) degrading, violent sex that leads directly to women and girls being raped and abused and despoiled through “bad” and nasty sex…not to mention, torture, cliterectomies, foot-binding, and all other oppressions of women worldwide. But, your personal sex life is not germane to this argument..especially when you choose to defend it.

Plus….since when did “middle class” become privileged??? And if Ren does decide to create porn “free of charge”, how in the hell does that affect in any way those women who get paid for their efforts?? Because she sends a message that women might actually do porn because — horrors of all horrors — they actually LIKE SEX?!?!?! Naaaaaah…must be the Patriarchy working its evil hand again!!

And, of course, Ren’s personal choices now become responsible for not only porn’s evil, but EVERY woman being raped or physically assaulted…and she hasn’t even made a single video for the popular market yet. Not bad for a single Henchwoman.

Quite naturally, some of Heart’s regular peeps decide to get their chomps in. Here’s Sis (formerly known as Pony):

[posted by Sis on 11/14/08 @ 5:23 AM]

I am truly sickened by RE’s contention that her ‘choice’ to be raped, gang banged and brutalized, and to depict those aberrations, should be the measure of those activities. No well person chooses to be raped, or thinks it’s not a brutality, even if she’s smiling while it happens. I’m not responding to her. I just won’t leave her post uncommented on, except by you.

Notice again the typical analogy: gangbanging is the same as rape, even when the woman absolutely consents to it (the gangbang, of course), and even when the woman is shown to absolutely revel in it. And I guess that the mere sight of a large erect penis entering a woman’s vagina, regardless of the intent of the owner of said penis or the willing consent of the owner of said vagina, would still, in Sis’s mind, be considered brutal rape….merely because of the nature of the erection. Only someone who is really sick in the head (or just a “bi-sexee, hot sexbot” who mindlessly kneels at The Cock) would ever think any different.

Since Ren Ev is not one to cut and run, she decided to rebut Heart(less)’s challenge. Unfortunately, this comment, unlike the first, not only did not make it out of moderation, So, we have to go back over to Ren’s blog for the rebuttal:

Well, Cheryl, call me a stickler for details. When I quote someone or allude to what they’ve said, I consider it good form and ethical to link to their own words, so people can actually see what’s really there, and not someone else’s take on it. It is, in countless ways, considered proper procedure and form.

And since we’re playing this game, let me lay this out real simple for you: Yeah, I have degrees- that being in the sex industry paid for. Do I have some privileges? Absolutely. Do I lack others? Absolutely. Am I middle class? Now, yeah, barely…like a whole hell of a lot of other people out there, yourself included. But I can assure you, I came from far less than middle class- far less- and yeah, you can bet money I am not going back if there is anything I can do about it. And I can, so I do. What has me where I am now? Sex work.

And for a moment, think about this take on it: logically- in any capitalist industry, those who do the employing are far more likely to employ those who will work for free than those who want any sort of payment at all. It’s simply a logical business theory, and porn is a business. So if I do gonzo or whatever else for free or for less, well, I am doing it and perhaps one less woman who doesn’t want to is.

As for the internet, well, I have just as much right to be here talking about what I think as you do, and why yes, I know you are not saying I don’t, but if you think I’m the only person out there who is into “sexual brutality”, even the only female one…well, hate to disappoint, but there are a whole lot of us out here. And in a world where any sort of “sexual deviancy” from homosexuality to BDSM can be written off by many as a mental illness or countless other things, sure enough, I am all for talking about it and seeing non-criminal and consenting acts of such thing normalized.

Millions of humans suffer so we can drive cars, use computers, wear clothes, eat food, and have countless other things. It sucks, and it’s harsh, but it’s true. I think you also know, agree with my methods or not, I do what I can to help people in the sex industry who do not want to be there. And frankly, if you think I am some cold-blooded sellout, well, I don’t care. Everyone needs their demons, right? Hell, I even respect some of the work you do, I’ve said before and I’m sure I’ll say again your site is an excellent source of information on world news regarding women, but I think you have a very one sided and ill-informed view of the whole of the sex industry, the people in it, and what needs to be done. I also know from interacting with you that you do not care to hear from people, even victims, who do not share your view. You’ve made that plainly evident. And yeah, you can quote me on that too.

And then, she decided to answer Sis’s drive-by (as well as one from Satsuma (aka She Who Knows The Lesbian Gaze) as well…but this one didn’t even make it TO moderation, because it seems that Heart decided to permanently banish Ren Ev from posting ever again through her trusty “auto-delete” function. Once again, Ren posted it to her own blog:

Here is what I said: Sis- You have no idea, do you? I have never been raped, ever. Do you fucking know me? Do you know what I like? I would NEVER presume the same for you. And I do not forget your lies about me, even with the new name.

Satsuma: “No mentally healthy woman who had true options would do any of this, and all the pro-porn people are well aware of this.”

Hah. we wouldn’t? Sure. I am a little off, but so are you. Do you really want to compare options?

Ahhh…but it gets so much better…just wait until you get a load of what Heart and the crew do to another feminist who attempts to challenge their nonsense. That deserves a full fisking in and of itself…and that will be my next blog project. Stay tuned….

A brief shoutout and a tip of the hat to Violet Blue of Tiny Nibbles, who linked my entry on Bob Jensen’s antiporn promo roadie out west, and said some nice things about my reset of her SFGate column on antipornfeminist lunacy. Appreciat ‘ya, Violet…but I’m keeping Snap Shots.

These days I’ve been trying my best to get away from posting about the contining batshit nuttery that comes from the mouth and keyboard of former Free Soil Party Presidential candidate/Head Womyn Warrior Cheryl Lynn Seelhoff (also known to her friends and allies as “Heart”; though I prefer the gloss “Heart(less)” as a tribute to one of the rock group Heart — that would be Ann and Nancy Wilson’s group — and one of their greatest songs). After all, one can only stand so much of her riffing on on the brutality of the “patriarchy” and how porn and prostitution are the root of all evil committed against women.

Problem is, just as I think that Heart(less) can’t get that much batshittery, she goes and cranks it up two notches.

And now, she’s managed to go completely off the chain.  As in…praising Sarah Palin as a…..FEMINIST. And a victim of…PATRIARCHY.

That’s right, folks…the present Governor of Alaska, the former Vice Presidential nominee of the Republican Party, the woman who basically was the point in the grand smearing of now President-Elect Obama as “Evil Muslim Socialist Gay Redistributor Radical Black Man ANTIAMERICAN!!!!!!1111ONEHUNEDREDELEVEN11!!, all while palling around with Anti-American seccessionists….according to Ms. Seelhoff, is actually just a victim of the male press.

You think I’m kidding you??  Read this quote from Heart(less)’s blog: Women’s Spaces: The Margins, where she first delights on the fantasy of what would have been if Hillary Clinton rather than Joe Biden had been selected as Obama’s Veep, then gives her game away:

But no.  Of the four candidates, the one woman, Palin, is connected with the least favored of the three male candidates and is therefore without the  (patriarchally prescribed) protections she might have had had she been connected with the most highly favored man.  Since she is the only woman of the four,  and since she has been viciously targeted as a woman, she has become the one to frame the discussions so far as issues around sexism and women’s rights.  Had Clinton been Obama’s choice, the feminism of each candidate and the commitment to women’s rights of each would have been front and center, on the table and up for discussion, debate, comparison.  The framing of  issues around women’s rights would be continually under negotiation.  In all likelihood, there would be far fewer displays of sexism, if only because each party would be determined to demonstrate it was less sexist than the other.

As it is the lone woman at the bottom of the hierarchy of male candidates must continually challenge a barrage of misogynist attacks from all corners alone, with the result that her ultimately conservative framings of women’s issues increasingly possess an apparently feminist patina.  And, so many feminists have joined in those misogynist attacks, they no longer have any credibility with which to dull it.

Oh, hold up now….so is Heart saying that Hillary had (or has) no abilities of her own, but was only using Bubba the Clenis’s power as President (and, perhaps, sympathy of her based on his personal history of sexual infidelity) to gain her power?? I may think that a lot of Hillary’s power may come from having Bubba serve in the world’s most powerful office…but even I wouldn’t go so far as to knock her personal capabilities and smarts. (Her political positions and her policies, on the other hand, are more than fair game, as would be any politician, regardless of race or gender.)

But it’s this “Sarah Palin’s being attacked AS A WOMAN” thing that’s getting me. I mean, does Heart(less) really think that calling out the basic fact that Caribou Eva Braun is being used as a point person in the smearing of not only a Black man who is running for the Presidency, but in bringing out the absolute worst, bottom-of-the-barrel, racist emotions of the Far Right “base” is somehow “attacking her as a woman”??? Or…the fact that she seemed to react to media scrutiny like a moose caught in the headlights right before he is run over by the snowmobile?? Or..the fact that Governor Palin just can’t seem to get basic things correct….like, say, what the duties of the office she’s running for actually is??

And all this is Obama’s fault by…..how?? Especially when it is mostly folks associated with McCain and the GOP — you know, the very people who NOMINATED her in the first place — who are slinging the most barbs at her now??

But then again, you have to understand Heart(less)’s root ideology: if you happen to be a woman who is close to sharing her personal ideology about the evil of men (and especially, the evil of men using sex to allegedly oppress women), then you get a free pass from her….your actual policies being against feminism nonwithstanding. And of course, the more women in positions of power (evil sex pozzies and male rapist enablers excluded, of course), the better to promote “radicalfeminist” ideology.

Oh, but it gets so much better with Heart(less)….in the very next post there at Women’s Spaces, she further elaborates on Palin’s “victimhood”, and conjures up another fantasy: a Clinton-Palin ticket (Vagina Unity!!!!):

[...] But I can’t help but consider what might have happened if we’d had a 2008 Presidential Election something like this.  What might have happened had Clinton and Palin worked together negotiating their divergent views of feminism and women’s issues?  How might Obama and McCain have responded?  Would women have supported women or men?  How many men would have supported an all-woman ticket?

Yeah, a neoliberal Democrat and an ultra-conservative Republican joining forces to save womanhood from the evil men. I’m sure that the majority of women would have loved to support that ticket on shared clit worship alone.  Right…and how would my family react if my aunt got a sex change operation and became my uncle???

The yang to all this yin love of Sarah the Blossoming Radicalfeminist is the continuing assault on Obama for simply (1) having a penis; (2) raining on Hillary’s assent to the political mountain by actually beating her fair and square; and (2) not being sufficiently radicalfeminist for Heart(less)’s sake. Obviously, Heart’s not alone among raging PUMAs who are still bitter about Hillary being stoned out of the Dem nomination, but all this nonsense about Obama being a total “misogynist” while praising Palin as a closet radfem seems to be a bit off key to reality, ‘ya think??

To give yet another example: here’s Heart ripping and roaring about a presser that Palin did in October in Las Vegas, where she attempted to mine the PUMA/Raging Feminist/Hillary Got Screwed meme to her advantage, essentially calling out Obama as a “faux feminist” while pimping the GOP as more….feminist?!?!?!

The Caucus, the New York Times Political Blog, blogged yesterday about a speech Sarah Palin gave in Las Vegas. She was described as having been flanked by women who were members of the Democratic Platform Committee and of NOW and is reported to have strongly criticized Obama’s record so far as women’s rights, criticizing him for not choosing  Hillary Clinton as his running mate and for paying women on his staff less money than he paid the men.   I went poking around and learned that this latter was actually news about a month ago, although I missed it, which is unsurprising, since I am sick and tired of these campaigns and can barely bring myself to check in to find out the latest.

Now, this occurred right after the “$15K clothing budget” snafu was revealed…but let’s not go there right now. The point for the moment is that Heart is so willing to take the side of a right-winger who would more than likely, if given the keys to the highest office, do more to harm real women than even the supposedly “misogynist”  Democratic candidate would.

Oh..but that doesn’t mean that Heart won’t be completely down on BHO…she does give him credit for….well….being Black:

None of this is or should be surprising.  It’s become more and more clear with each passing day that if Obama becomes President — and it is almost certain he will — there will likely be little to no substantive change in the works for women as women.  I’ve often written about the significance of having a black/biracial President and his family in the White House; I stand by what I’ve written about that.  Black and biracial girls and boys, men and women, and ultimately all Americans will benefit from an Obama Presidency because of what it means for persons of color, black people especially.  I will be intentionally focusing on that and feeling that when Obama is inaugurated, as I believe he will be.  I will cry, I will be extremely moved, I will hug my kids and feel so grateful that this particular glass ceiling of race has been shattered.

And at the same time I will mourn, and grieve, and rage — you better believe it, I will rage and feel tremendous, gut-wrenching resentment – over the truth I’ve known and observed all along:  that women will continue to suffer under an Obama presidency, just as women have suffered under ALL previous presidencies.  Here is a guy who doesn’t even KNOW his woman staff members earn less money than his male staff members and who hasn’t even considered how few women staff members he has compared with McCain.

Where men have the power, women will suffer.  Doesn’t matter that they identify as Democrats or liberals or progressives; in fact, we are more likely to suffer under these latter, given our lengthy and all-too-dependable history of betrayal at the hands of such men.  They spout off about women’s rights, expect to be believed, and ARE believed.  In fact, it is unlikely that they will meaningfully change the reality of women as women in the world.  It simply will cost them too much and they know that.

Notice that she says “doesn’t matter if they are liberals or progressives“; I guess that conservatives or reactionaries who happen to be men shouldn’t be judged as harshly as leftie/liberal men for their “misogyny”, as long as they put more antiporn/radicalfeminist women in position of power??

Yup…this be fine radical feminism, indeed. Radical RIGHT feminism.

If Sarah Palin gets stoned out of the Republican nomination in 2012, perhaps Heart would like to step aside and give her a home at the Free Soil Party?? Just askin’…

Congratulations, Heart(less)…you’ve finally gone and done it: you’ve become the first ever Feminist Wingnut.  Enjoy with pride.

Tags: One Obama Nation Under a Groove, Radfem wingnuttery