There is hate, and then there is HATE.

And then….there is PURE, SIMPLE HATE.

Example #1: Luckynkl, the plucky radrightfeminist who continues to break new records in hate.

She was the one, if you will remember, who launched the attack on transgendered folk a while back as innate rapists who were attempting to appropriate REAL women’s bodies….hence, her support for a bathroom check at certain radfem festivals.

But now, it appears that time has not healed all wounds with her; it simply makes her that much more…..well, hateful and disgusting.

Case in point: this thread that took place over at a message board called RadfemSpeaks (an compliment to the Genderberg board for GenderBorgians, I figure) which Renegade Evolution just so happened to locate (or, rather, it must have located her). The original subject happened to be MAN’S apparent obsession with anal sex…which led directly into the topic of men playing with their own excrement. (Yeah, they went THERE.) Here’s Lucky’s initial contribution:

[Posted by Luckynkl on 11-21-08 @ 5:50 PM]

I have a couple of theories.

Young children are often fascinated by such things and animals often show upset by defecating or flinging feces. So put 2 + 2 together. Basically, men’s emotional development is stunted under patriarchy so they don’t tend to progress much past the age of 5.

It should also be noted that altho most feminists think men are the standard, I contend they’re not. To be a man, one must be “not woman.” So men observe what women think and do and then do the complete opposite. Because men don’t have an original bone in their bodies and have to take their cues from women. That’s why women are the standard, not men.

Men don’t do human maintenance so women usually get the detail of cleaning up all the shit, piss, vomit and stink of their families. Most women don’t find this fun or amusing. Which is why men do. Anything that will shock or repulse a woman, they’re into. The more shocking, vile, or repulsive, the better. See above about men taking their cues from women and doing the complete opposite to establish themselves as “not women.”

It’s also done to get attention. Negative attention is better than no attention. Anything that is vile and repulsive is almost guaranteed to bring shock and thus, attention.

Why anyone would want one of these mutants is beyond me. Just go buy a puppy or go work in a daycare. You’ll experience the same thing. Except kids and puppies are cute. Men are not. But men think they are and they compete fiercely with infants and 2 year olds for mommy’s attention. They all seem to suffer from Peter Pan syndrome and all dream of having mommies without any authority.

Oh, I get it….men are simply so obsessed with getting back at women for being so superior (despite the fact that patriarchy teaches that men are indeed superior to women) that they simply have to fling their own shit in response..literally. And that also explains why men are so obsessed with anal sex (and, I guess by extension, it explains gay men, too). So that’s why we REAL womyn have to inspect the genitals of all women to make sure that transgendered folk don’t pollute and contaminate our precious womyn’s spaces.

Of course, this brilliant ANALysis encouraged other members of the tribe to spout their own theories on male anal obsession.

[posted by helzeph on 11-22-08 @ 4:36 AM]

Also there is a gland, (the prostate) that apparently gives pleasure when stimulated via the anus, plenty of men say ( not usually to us) they prefer being fucked to fucking. I always think, oh good, go and attach your bum to the bathroom door handle and leave women in peace.

Re the bowel movements, because of the above mentioned anal gland, when the feces decsend the other part may rise, rather like they feel they are being done from the inside out, or something, not being one I cannot be precise. Anyway I think they use defacation as a masturbatory aid and that’s why they spend so long on the loo.

They moon because they think their bums are desirable, which they are to each other, at least while their behinds are young. Everything they do to women in porn they are busy doing to themselves and each other all the time.

I agree with Lucky it is much better to get a puppy, they really are lovable, and while on that subject; it is very true to say that no dog is safe from me.

Keep dogs in the house and men out of doors.

Of course, the basic fact that women do have prostate glands and can gain pleasure from anal sex as well is lost on these Mensas…but why let facts get in the way of a good male baiting??

Some further extrapolation followed:

[posted by mangetout on 11-23-08 @ 8:12 PM]

Heteronormalcy is not normal, hence forced upon us by church and state. Left to their own devices, most people (female and male) would probably be homosexual with a bit of bisexuality thrown in - let’s face it, those of the same biological sex have a much better idea of what feels good. So the homophobia is to force everyone to conform to the het system in patriarchy. And men probably have more homosexual leanings than women (Ancient Greece). So in part, I think it is an expression of that. But I also agree with the childish nature of men (above). I would therefore propose the anal fascination is for a variety of reasons.

Most men don’t actually like women very much, and certainly prefer to hang out with other men. Whilst bum fucking women, I am sure that the man concerned can pretend she is a he for a while. I am sure there is a link between repressed homosexuality and the anal rape of women - many victims of domestic violence report anal rape as well as vaginal rape. Anal ’sex’ with women is a good way of saying I hate you, just look at ATM in porn, can’t be any clearer than that.

And in case you missed the subtle hint of gay male bashing, here comes another commentator to make it not quite so subtle:

[posted by bonobobabe on 11-24-08 @ 9:49 AM]

I think that anal sex is also a good way of saying, “I hate myself.” I work in the microbiology department of a medical lab, but you don’t need to be a microbiologist to know that the rectum is a filthy place. Here’s my favorite statistic: 60% of the mass of a turd is bacteria.

Why would a man put his penis, which is supposedly his crowning glory, into a shithole? Seriously. Oh, don’t try criticizing anal sex for any reason on a liberal site, all the faggots will cry, “Homophobe!” and they’ll eat you alive. I don’t care. It’s disgusting and filthy, not to mention not good for the tissues back there. There’s a media doctor here in the states who’s always on about rectal prolapse and anal sex.

I believe that men wouldn’t put their dicks in such a disgusting place if they didn’t feel that they were disgusting themselves. They probably just extrapolate from that that if someone consents to anal sex, they are just as disgusting, too, and therefore, deserve any bad treatment they wish to dish out. And women consent to stuff like that because they have low self-esteem which was caused by men in the first place because they felt bad about themselves.

[Bolded emphasis added by me.]

Well, how about that??? So, it really is all about the “faggots” and their anal obsessions invading straight men and corrupting them to do the same to women….right?? Radical Feminism, meet NARTH. Luckynkl and Bonobobabe, say hello to Fred Phelps. I’m sure that you will get to know each other very well when you share the same prison. In Hell.

But apparently, it’s not just men who are capable of throwing their own shit around. Oh, noooooooz, even some of the purest radrightfeminists are perfectly capable of resorting to leaving their turds in the holy water, so to speak.

Which brings us to mAndrea, RadRightFem Loony #2….who decided to choose the Transgender Day of Remembrance 2008 memorial at The F-Word to break off her own drive-by colon blowout at those who suffered the ultimate price of transphobia. (BTW…as a straight but not narrow progressive Black man, allow me to give my full support and prayers and thoughts to all those who have paid that ultimate price for other people’s myopias and hate; I’m so sorry that I couldn’t have blogged my support that day, but you may certainly count me in in solidarity.)

[posted by mAndrea on 11-21-08 @ 4:03 PM]

Normally, we consider people who use their emotions in place of reason to be utter fucking morons.

The basic premise of transgender ideology is that girl and boy brains exist, and are different from each other. Girl brains luv pink, and are rilly soft and gentle. Boy brains luv blue, and are rilly hard and aggressive.

The basic premise of feminist ideology is that no such difference exists. Oops, we have a discreptancy!

Since some women are quite the aggressive fuck, they must be a boy. Therefore, they are transgendered. Amazingly enough, wanting a penis is not required for women to be an aggressive fuck, so something is quite illogical regarding your theory.

Perhaps insanity is the answer.

Never mind the Palinesque complete lack of tact and timing, or the errors of conflating “transgendered theory” with traditional right-wing antifeminist notions of biological differences between genders….exactly what the fuck does “aggressive fuck” have all to do with transgendered women and men being murdered??? I guess that Brandon Teena was justified in being slaughtered and killed because she was attempting to copy men by aggressively stalking them??

Fortunately, the originator of the TDR and blogmistress at The F-Word, Helen G, wasn’t falling for any of that…shit; she promptly did what anyone dealing with fascist trolls farting on their web spaces should do: Expose them to sunlight, smack them down to size, and then boot their asses into geosynchronous orbit.

FTW:

[Posted by Helen G on 11-21-08 @ 7:49 PM]

Hello mAndrea.

It’s been a long time, hasn’t it?

So then. This comment of yours: even though it’s transphobic hate speech, plain and simple, I feel it’s worth publishing as an example of just one sort of violence that people like you use to attack trans and other gender non-conforming people across the world on a daily basis.

Of course, your violence isn’t the physical violence used to murder my trans sisters and brothers named in my post; and it isn’t the mental violence that pushes others of us into taking our own lives. But even verbal violence such as yours is still violence, and it cannot be tolerated by anyone with even an ounce of humanity, with a heart, with a soul. Logic and reasoning aren’t even required.

And it hasn’t gone unnoticed that you singled out a post made on our Remembrance Day. It’s my guess that you have done this as a shock tactic similar to the desecration of headstones by fascist thugs.

It’s a means of getting attention, and on this occasion I’ve decided to oblige you.

Why? Well, here’s the deal, girlfriend:

As long as I am a blogger at The F-Word, I will never again publish any comment of yours that may arrive in any mod queue for which I’m responsible.

That’s all. Game over.

Thanks for stopping by, enjoy your 15 minutes.
Helen

That is what I call “cleaning out the barn.” And standing up to bigotry dressed in “radicalfeminist” drag.

Tags: radfems go wild again, radical right feminism, transgendered bigotry

Did you really think that Olbermann would allow Governor Turkey Assassin to get away scot free without getting his chompers in??

Yeah, right.

Only think, Keith: if you are going to mine the old archives of the first episode of WKRP In Cinncinati, and their infamous “turkey drop”; you really need to also get the infamous call of that calamity. (”Oh, the humanity!!!” screamed Les Nesmond over the air.) On the other hand, looking over Loni Anderson will never get old…and not just for the two obvious reasons, either.

A warning, though: Keith uses the raw feed from the local affiliate, which was NOT pixellated, so all the gore is shown in its entirity. Turkeys, small children, and vegans might want to skip this clip.

Countdown with Keith Olbermann (MSNBC), 11-24-08: Keith gives his first reaction to the Sarah Palin Turkey Pardon/Slaughter interview (via YouTube)

Tags: Keith Olbermann, Sarah Palin...Super Political Genius

So….Renegade Evolution did a roadie to Minneapolis this weekend with one thing in mind: intellectually bust Bob Jensen’s head in  (figure of speech, Clones) at the latest screening for The Price of Pleasure.

From the looks of things, and her reset of all the happenings there, she must have succeeded.

Unfortunately, she wasn’t able to film the festivities, but there is hope the debate sponsors can provide her with their own clip.

Fortunately for us, she recounted all the fun at her blog. Some highlights:

Prior to the viewing, introductions were made, and for the most part everyone was very nice, but I noted right off the bat that Prof. Jensen did not seem at all pleased that I was there. PF [Plan(s)feminist, who arranged for the debate between Ren and Bob the Guilttripper] introduced me to him, I smiled, he did not, he tersely shook my hand, said “Hi”, then completely turned his attention elsewhere to initiate a different conversation with PF (who is awesome and totally worth initiating conversation with, yet still, I found this very rude). There was a journalism student there who wanted to interview me, so I went someplace quieter to speak with him for a few, then it was time to get things underway. The order of events was gone over: Jensen would introduce the film, we’d watch it, I’d make a statement after the film, then Q&A time.

Gee,,,how friendly of you, Professor Jensen….does she threaten you that much??

Later, after Jensen previews and then shows TPoP (the edited, pixellated version, BTW), Ren attacks..straight, hard, and without mercy.

I informed the viewers that they had just received a crash course in Gonzo and BDSM porn, but contrary to what the film claimed it was (which it does claim, in bold white print on a black screen), it is not indicative of the top selling and renting films of 2005- in fact there is not footage from a single Feature film in TpoP at all, and the top renting/selling porn film of 2005 (and all time), “Pirates” is not even mentioned. Nor, in any of the BDSM porn shown, is there a single female dominant featured, which within the genera of BDSM porn is a very, very popular theme. I also mentioned the way the interviews were set up and presented- very brief commentary from people involved in porn amid some of the roughest content they had filmed or content taken not from porn films at all-but rather from web sites versus lengthy humanizing statements from non-porn /anti-porn people was somewhat slanted, as was mixing drawings from torture manuals in with BDSM footage as no one who has ever been actually tortured as a political prisoner or whatnot signed on, consented and got paid to do it. I also mentioned that many people engage in sexual acts such as BDSM play consentingly in their bedrooms…and you know, there were a fair amount of people sitting there in the audience nodding when I said that.

Jensen rebutted this saying the footage they used was pulled from the most popular thirty films of 2005. Which is untrue.**

Actually, as Ren noted in a footnote at her blog, most of the material came either from the more extreme gonzo vids from sites like JM Productions, or from kink Internet sites like kink.com…and most of them were simply slanted and adjusted to fit the producer’s biases.

Just go over to her blog and check out the full story.

Tags: antipornography feminism, Robert Jensen, sex hate

Oh, please, please, pretty, pretty please, God(dess), let this woman be the Republican Presidential candidate for 2012…or 2016, or 2020. If anything can’t bury the label of “conservatism” for all eternity (well, other than Dubya’s warmaking and his scandals and the economy going out of whack), then this very ill-timed SNAFU should do the trick.

WARNING to all vegans and turkey lovers (those who love real turkeys, that is): the following contains some graphic scenes of turkey carnage as well as graphic acts of turkey murder. Viewer discretion is advised.

Countdown with Keith Olbermann (MSNBC, David Schuster subhosting)) 11-20-08 “Earth Shattering News” segment on Alaska Governor Sarah Palin’s attmepted turkey pardon (while other turkeys are being slaughtered in the background
(via YouTube)

Nice going, Caribou Lizzie. Your sense of timing for pressers remains so keen. Why not try shooting birds out of your helicopter next time???

Hey, Violet Socks and all you Palin PUMAs: still think of her as a buddening feminist now???

UPDATE (11-22-08): Normally I wouldn’t do a hat tip for John Halitosis….errrrrr, John Aravosis of AmericaBLOG….but he was able to unearth this YouTube clip of a local statiion’s raw feed of Palin’s little after-pardon interview. This one, though, unlike the MSNBC version, is totally unpixellated; and completely uncensored. Just follow the link; out of respect for the turkeys, I am NOT going to post that here.

Oh, and for all you PETA whacks out there who are going to say: “Yeah, right, ‘Dog…I’m sure you are going to enjoy YOUR turkey dinner this coming Thanksgiving!!”…save it, fools. I am a meat eater, and I am so well aware that we farm turkeys just to be eaten. The issue isn’t that turkeys are being executed; it is rather that they are being so openly done so…and that Governor Palin choose to run her mouth about it while claiming to pardon them. It is Caribou Lizzie’s lack of forethought and sense of placing that is the money issue for me.  Still, if you want to protest the slaughter of innocent turkeys, then have at it.

Tags: Keith Olbermann, Sarah Palin rides again

Well…it was fun while it lasted.

Perhaps I should have listened to my instincts that told me that Barack Hussein Obama as President of the United States would be your typical DLC Democrat in the finest tradition of Bubba Clinton (but with a nice deep tan and without Bubba’s pussy hound instincts).  But, silly, stooopid me being the optimist I am, I chose to give him the benefit of the doubt, being so happy that he and the Democrats would be able to flush the evil, bad Reaganites and Bushites out of Capitol Hill.

And then Rahm Emanuel happened.

As did Hillary Clinton as Secretary of State.

As did several of Bubba’s cronies started making their way into the transition team.

Then…Tom Daschle as Health and Human Services Secretary. Yeah…THAT Tom Daschle.

Then Obama broke bread with….John McCain?!?!?! Why not invite Sarah Palin as your Interior Secretary then, Senator??

And…Holy Joe Lieberman keeps his plum Homeland Security seat and his “Democratic” Caucus standing, with no less a push from BHO himself. As a Senator’s spokesman parapharsed: “Suck on that one, ‘ya stoopid liberals.”

And now, we have this latest: Eric Holder, who was Janet Reno’s first assistant, is now tagged to become Attorney General.

Wouldn’t be so bad, were it not for the fact that he was a highly paid corporate lawyer for Chiquita, the banana comglomerate who was so busy trying to undercut and undermine native Latin American fruit markets…..while also defending fascist, death squad dictatorships.

And oh, lookee here…..he even seems to have a thing against adult sexual expression, too (from an AVN.com article, h/t to Ernest Greene at BPPA:

While Holder will have to undergo an extensive vetting process before officially being offered the job, he has already generated concern in the adult industry over a decade-old memo he wrote on the topic of obscenity prosecutions.

[...]

Perhaps even more troubling is a letter Holder wrote to Morality In Media founder Paul McGeady on July 2, 1998, which references a meeting apparently attended by Holder, McGeady and representatives of various religio-conservative pro-censorship groups:

“I appreciated having the opportunity to meet with you recently to discuss the prosecution of obscenity cases,” Holder wrote. “Your commitment to this important issue is commendable, and I fully share your concerns about the distribution of obscenity and child pornography, whether it is over the Internet or by more traditional purveyors of such material. I encourage you, and the other organizations with whom I met, to continue working closely with the Child Exploitation and Obscenity Section of the Department of Justice as we work aggressively to address this troubling problem. Based on the many insightful comments and observations made by representatives of the various groups who attended our recent meeting, I determined that it was appropriate for me to send a memorandum to all United States Attorneys reminding them of the Department’s policies.”

[...]

Holder’s stance on obscenity drew comments from First Amendment attorney and AVN columnist Clyde DeWitt, who dealt with the “Holder Memo” in his column for AVN’s September, 1998 issue (”Federal Obscenity Prosecutions in General, and the Internet in Particular”.) DeWitt referenced Holder’s stance that U.S. Attorneys should follow the United States Attorneys’ Manual, which at that time still suggested that adult companies could be targeted using a “multiple-prosecution strategy,” where a single company could be indicted in multiple jurisdictions, forcing that company to expend vast resources defending itself, which might bankrupt the company - exactly as the Justice Department intended the tactic to accomplish.

“Perhaps most shocked by the article was Adam & Eve owner Phil Harvey, who had undertaken tireless efforts to have the multiple-prosecution policies of the Department of Justice ruled unconstitutional,” DeWitt later wrote. “Indeed, during the course of the wind-up of the very successful PHE, Inc. v. United States Department of Justice case, Phil’s company received a promise from the Department of Justice at a November, 1993 hearing that, according to Assistant United States Attorney Thomas Millet, it was anticipated that ‘within the near future,’ the Department policy would be changed so as to ‘no longer encourage multiple prosecutions in obscenity cases.’ Accordingly, Phil was to say the least alarmed to find the old policies still in effect.”

“I wrote the first article — this was ‘97, ‘98 — just generally to inform the newly-emerging Internet community, who didn’t remember obscenity prosecutions, of what they were and that it’s out there and it’s serious,” DeWitt recalled. “I mentioned the multiple prosecution strategy, and Phil Harvey called me up or faxed me or something and said, ‘What the hell is this? They changed that because of my lawsuit.’ I said, ‘No, they didn’t. here’s what it says presently,’ and he said, ‘Well, that’s exactly what it said before!’”

Indeed, the U.S. Attorneys’ Manual was not changed until June of ‘98, just after Holder wrote his memorandum - and that change came at the insistence of Harvey, who contacted the Justice Department to demand that it fulfill its promise.

Now…in some defense of Holder, the antiporn zealot groups meeting with him have a slightly different view what took place. Taken from the Concerned Women of America website today (and crossposted by moi to BPPA):

In 1993, the United States began a staggering decline in obscenity prosecutions. During the Clinton administration’s first six years, federal enforcement of obscenity violations plummeted more than 80 percent. In fiscal 1997, only six prosecutions included a lead charge of federal obscenity law violation. In 1998, those cases totaled only eight. Further, no prosecutions against major interstate distributors of hard-core porn have occurred for the past several years, according to a report by Morality in Media, a New York-based decency organization.

The last eight years have been “peaches and cream as far as prosecutions have been concerned,” said Paul Cambria, a “First Amendment” lawyer whose clients include Hustler publisher Larry Flynt. Cambria spoke at a pornography trade show in September. “We’ve had some state prosecutions, but by-and-large no federal prosecutions” under the Clinton administration, he said.

To remedy the situation, pro-family groups, including the National Law Center for Children and Families and Concerned Women for America, pressed for meetings with Justice Department officials. They ignored our requests to meet with U.S. Attorney General Janet Reno for nearly eight months—although we represented millions of children and families. When I pressed inside contacts for the meeting, officials said we did not merit a meeting with Miss Reno and offered us Deputy Attorney General Eric Holder instead.

At that May 1998 meeting, Mr. Holder seemed genuinely concerned with our requests. But he had little understanding of the obscenity industry. Afterwards, he contacted all 93 U.S. attorneys in the states to remind them that the prosecution of obscenity producers and distributors was still a priority, and they were responsible to act.

Still, nothing happened. The porn industry’s trade publications reported the Justice Department had sent this letter, but pornographers obviously didn’t fear prosecution and continued “business as usual.” In 1996, the industry endorsed President Clinton for a second term, stating in AVN, “There have been fewer federal prosecutions of the adult industry under Clinton than under Reagan and Bush. … [W]ith no reason to change his hands-nearly-off porn policy, vote for him.”

The AVN article also mentions some more questionable tactics of Holder, such as the aftformentioned ties to Chiquita and his role in one of Bubba’s final acts of cronyism: the pardoning of financeer Mark Rich.

But if even that isn’t enough to chill your spine, here are two words that should horrify you: Catherine MacKinnon.

That’s right, Clones….the long-time Svengali of antiporn “feminism” has openly endorsed and blessed Obama’s presidency (even explicitly in an editorial in…of all places, The Wall Street Journal), calling him “a family man with two daughters.” You would note that this hasn’t gone too well with the usual Womyn Warrior crowd of radfems; some of them being still in Hillary/PUMA-induced shock and anger (and some even reduced to attempting to mine Sarah Palin as the next great feminist heroine)….but why would such an antiporn  firebrand like MacKinnon make such a public endorsement?? Could it be because one of her closest allies, University of Chicago professor Cass Susstein, just might be headed to the US Supreme Court??? Could it be that Michelle Obama really could be a closeted radical feminist?? Or, at least, be sympathetic to MacKinnon’s theories??

With all that happening, I wouldn’t be surprised if by next week Obama would be doing another presser announcing his plans to reform welfare by increasing work requirements and cutting benefits…oh, wait, he’s already done that, too???

Yup…change we can believe in, indeed. Unfortunately for progressives and the Left, more like chump change left at the bottom of a bag of coal lumps.

Looks like that vote for Cynthia McKinney wasn’t such a waste of mine, doesn’t it???

BONUS: Thanks to Ms. Shag over at Wear Clean Draws for this further example of the rightward influences that are ruling Obama right about now (adopted from here):

[...]  Later Emanuel responded to a question on the Employee Free Choice Act, a measure backed by organized labor but strongly opposed by business, saying, “Let me take your question and go somewhere else.” Instead, he spoke about the need to address falling income among middle class workers.

Well, now…so it seems that voting for your party standard bearer’s opponent, directly criticizing your party’s policies, abandoning your party in you reelection bid, and basically acting like a Judas turncoat really does have consequences.

Provided, of course, that you are a liberal or a “progressive”.

If you happen to be a conservative Democrat, on the other hand….well, bygones can be bygones.

And if you  happen to be a former conservative Democrat who got voted out of his party’s nomination for US Senate, well, all’s the better for healing and “bipartisanship”.

So, Holy Joe Lieberman gets to keep his Homeland Security chairmanship and his spot in the Democratic Caucus, but loses his co-chairmanship in a lesser committee. All to buffer up Obama’s push for “bipartianship”.

Anyone wants to bet that if Lieberman had backed Cynthia McKinney or Ralph Nader in the elections and had criticized Obama and/or the Dems from the Left, would he have been treated so nicely?? Yeah, right…he wouldn’t have ever tasted the Homeland Security committee to even begin with, let alone become its ranking member.

But, such is the case with Democratic leadership: a classier, nicer breed of right-wing.

And…once again, the Left/Liberal side of the political table gets punked. Big surprise.

And no, one more time….Hillary would not have changed things, either.

Wonder if Bernie Sanders will be able to keep his Dem Caucus seat???

Meanwhile, BHO continues to do his usual tacks to the Right: Hillary about to become Secretary of State as soon as they can clear the vetting of Bubba’s CGI assets; Chuck Hagel about to become Sec of Defense (he jumped on Rush and Newt and the GOP flying monkeys today); and the revival of Clinton 2.0 continues unabatted. Oh, and no impeachment of Dubya or his minions for his war crimes; no closing of Guantamano Bay or Gitmo for housing and torturing “terrorists”, and probably no single payer health care proposal, either.

In short, what we are about to be getting is more of a mix between Bubba Clinton’s “triangulation” (but without the Repubs in charge of the Congress) and Jimmy Carter’s “campaign left, but govern right” working strategy. We all know where that ended up, now do we???

Sarah Palin and Mitt Romney might be measuring the drapes for the White House for 2012 after all if this keeps up…

(OK..so it was only Heart(less) who offered her open letter towards “pro-porn, pro-prostitution, antifeminist, male-centered misogynists”, and mostly it was targeted towards women whom they disagree with, like Ren Ev and Hexy…but since I tend to be one of their biggest targets anyway for being all of the latter (although I will argue the “antifeminist” and “misogynist” part, I most definitely am mostly pro-porn and pro-prostitiution…and you can’t get more “male-centered” than being an actual man), I will assume that her rant has the approval of all of the GenderBorg hive mind and address them in toto.)

To Ms. Seelhoff, Samantha M. Berg (aka Locutus of GenderBorg…errrrr, Genderberg), Sis (formerly known as Pony), Gayle, Stormcloud (formerly of the Academy of Bees and Wasps), Satsuma (of the Radical Lesbian Womyn’s Ministry of the Faith), and all other charter members of the AntiPornography/AntiProstitution RadicalFeminist Caucus Against The Male Erect Penis:

I was so deeply, deeply touched by your latest righteous (as in Far Righteous) volley of resistance that you posted today; in pretty much the same way that I was touched deeply yesterday when i found out that a small cockroach had gotten lodged in my left ear and had to be irrigated out. (True story. VERY TRUE STORY.) I mean, the response I had reading your short but very potent prose, Ms. Seelhoff, was about the same as the dizziness and near fainting spells that I was suffering from these last few days from the critter in my ear blocking all the draining points and causing me to lose my sense of balance. The only difference, though, was that unlike my experience with the roach, my response to you was also tainted by fits of laughter. As in: “Are you freakin’ KIDDING ME?!?!?! ROTF, LMAO!!!!! “

Since it is so short and sweet, allow me the privilege to reprint it here:

This open letter will be very short.

I won’t be silenced. I will continue to vocally and outspokenly oppose pornography, prostitution, sex trafficking, the enslavement of women, male dominance, white male heterosupremacy, and all brutality towards women throughout the world. There is nothing anyone can do, in the end, to silence me, to discredit me, or ultimately, to stop me. (Besides taking me out, of course. That’s been tried before, a number of times. And, here I still am.)

Just sayin’.

Such wonderful, thoughtful words of resistance, I’d say.

To which, I have a comment of two.

Now, you say that certain bloggers are so out to get you as to “silence” you, “discredit” you, and ultimately to “stop” you from delivering your potent message of liberation for women against the harms of enslavement of women, “male dominance”, “brutality towards woman” and “white male heterosupremacy”…and the (according to you) decisive link of pornography and prostitution in promoting all of these harms.

All fine and good in and of itself, Ms. Seelhoff…but ultimately, the proof is in the pudding, as the saying goes. Just for my sake, can you please give out some examples of where anyone that you proclaim to be your mortal enemy in your crusade have even attempted to “silence” you or “stop” you from your campaign??

I’m not talking about those who use their own blogs and their own venues and who post to open blogs and other venues to defend themselves and their positions and to criticize what they see as the fatal flaws in your position, Ms. Seelhoff, and that of your radicalfeminist allies…though perhaps the idea that critique is not the same as censorship and posting ideas on their own space is not exactly the same as denying other people their spaces to vent their views, might be a bit confusing to you. No, I am talking directly about direct attempts by such “pro-porn, pro-prostitution, antifeminist misogynists” to publically shame and harrass and ultimately silence your opinions and beliefs.

I’ll give you some time to think and search for the answer to my questions.

In the meantime, I will give some examples of the opposite being true, where real live “pro-porn/pro-prostitution” male-supporting “misogynists” (otherwise known in the real world as “critics of antiporn/anti-prostitution ‘feminism’”) have been faced in real life with not only attempts at silence, but far more personal attacks.

– Barry, the past owner of Alas, a Blog, was targeted by a group of radicalfeminists (led by someone named…what?? Heart??) when he refused to cede their demands to offer a free space at his blog to them to vent at will. Then, later, when he sold his domain name to another person, who promptly used it to run a portal to various porn pay sites, the same group of radicalfeminists practically lynched him as a rapist and a pornographer himself. (UPDATE 11-18-08: Clarification courtesy of Belledame: it was actually Heart working solo; and she was abusing his offer to guest blog. The “Alas, a Porn Portal” thingie happened months later, and then Heart attacked from outside, not inside. Thanks to Belle for the correction.)

– Laura, who was a decisively anti-porn feminist activist herself, was nevertheless drubbed out of blogging when she made the fatal error of appearing in a thread over at Renegade Evolution’s old blog; it was that apostatic moment that inspired Stormcloud to post her “bees and wasps” manifesto. (The same classic essay also took umbrage at various “pro-porn” women including “Am-butt” (Amber Rhea), “Retrograde Evolution”, “Belledodo” (Belledame of Fetch Me My Axe), for not following antiporn feminist orthodoxy.)

– Then there is “The Other Miriam”…the woman who has been falsely accused and convicted of being the person who infiltrated the firewall of Sam Berg’s Genderberg forum and lifting a quote that reduced Renegade Evolution to a “marketing ploy” by male pornographers. Although “The Other Miriam” has since that time revealed herself and has stenuously denied that she was indeed the one, and that she was only a go-between who only joined the Genderberg forums out of sheer interest; nevertheless, it was Sam Berg herself who, when she couldn’t prove that Ren herself was behind the breach of Genderberg’s firewall, laid all the blame on “The Other Miriam”, even going as far as to threaten her personally.

– Then there is Maxine Doogan, pro-sex worker activist, who was physically threatened when she attempted to speak at an antiprostitution seminar at the University of California at Berkeley.

– And I need not count the various threats that Renegade Evolution herself has had to endure from the hands of the “antipornfeminists”; everything from personal taunts at her age and appearance (Sis/Pony, Ginmar) to being threatened with having her personal and professional private live outed to intimate friends (Stormcloud), to being taunted for losing her volunteer job at a battered women’s shelter due to her chosen profession (Witchy-Woo), to an unsuccessful attempt to remove her from a panel discussion on porn and sex work at William and Mary College…amongst others.

Those are the few that I can actually remember…..I’m sure that there were several other cases.

But even with all that, there is also the hypocrisy, Ms. Seelhoff, of you talking about being “silenced”. Interesting, for a woman whose own blog has been well known for not allowing contrarian views to even be heard without severe moderation or modification of their posts to fit your ideological positions. That is, when they are even allowed to be moderated to begin with; recently, certain posters have been even banished (through auto-delete) from even having their posts seen; though you still retain the right to post answers and rejoinders to them as if they were published.

Just as interesting, Ms. Seelhoff, is the notion of those so against you being so “sick” as to oppose you because of your tireless and selfless activism on behalf of those women who cannot speak for themselves. Which hasn;t prevented you or any of your allies from claiming to speak for women who are more than capable of speaking for and representing themselves…especially when they attempt to disagree with your ideology. To give an example, from one of your earlier diatribes, as relayed by Satsuma):

“As I said before, women who so passionately defend this trash are highly likely to have been the victims as children of childhood sexual abuse themselves. Millions of women have suffered this evil as children at the hands of male relatives and close family members, and they are actually never treated or given the help they need to recover from this. The weirdness of women getting into all of this evil I believe is directly connected to women as girls being seasoned and abused. Oftentimes this is so traulmatic, that the girls don’t “remember” consciously the abuse at all. But it is “remembered” in their bodies and in cellular memory, and I believe when women feel drawn to be in porn, or to do burlesque or to promote this degrading S & M underworld, well, they have already been programmed.”

Of course, there are many women who either defend sexually explicit media or who perform in it who are NOT victims of past child abuse (and even if they were, it was still their decision as adults whether or not to enter the sex media or sex performer arena)..but those women tend to be absent from your shaded analysis.

But then again, perhaps your beliefs are based on more fundamental brands of “sickness”….again, quoting Satsuma:

”Even some lesbians I know have told me that being in relationships with women who were once with men was a contaminated sexual experience as well, because they had learned the bad habits of men unnknowingly. If this subtle difference can be discerned, then just think of the horrors out there in the pornification and prostitution of the world.”

In short: male sexuality in and of itself is contaminating and destructive of female sexuality. If you happen to agree with that sentiment, then who’s really the “sick” one???

None of this open letter will more than likely prevent you from continuing to use your space to sell your ideas….and I don’t really think that that is the motive with my or any other person’s criticism of you or your allies, anyway. All of us believe in the power of more speech rather than less; and having faced real censorship all our lives, we no more would want to suppress your right to believe as you do than we would have someone else belittle our rights to do the same.

On the other hand, though…just as you insist on your right to call our side out on our mistakes and our flaws; we too reserve our own rights to thorough and open critique of your ideas, especially when they so profoundly lie and distort our spoken words, our deeds, and our actions. Just as we do not challenge your right to control your space or your blog as you choose, as much as we may despise your methods at selective and preemptive censorship, we assume upon ourselves the same right to control our own spaces and seek out new open and public spaces to promote our views. The difference, though, is that we are not so afraid of public criticism that we need to hide behind a firewall or build a moat of censorship or only allow likeminded people to share their views; our biases are open, clear, and accessible to all to see. We don’t have any intentions of stopping you from anything, Ms. Seelhoff; I would think that you would give us the same privilege and credit.

You will still be here….and so will we. Just accept it and agree to disagree…or not. See if we care.

As you said…just sayin’.

Yours Sincerely,
Anthony J. Kennerson
(Pro-Sex Male Leftist/Pro-Pornstitution Feminist Supporter/Ren Ev’s Official Pimp (Uhhh, not really on the third…)

• @LaLibertine Funny…maybe it’s just that particular Subway…the one where I work tends to pile theirs on pretty decently…. #
• @LaLibertine ….Although, I will agree with you on the double meat price….that really sucks. And lessons in topping wouldn’t hurt, either #

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Part Deux of our adventure featuring Heart of Women Spaces and her “pornstitution” myopia….

When we last left, Heart(less) was dispatching Renegade Evolution for the evol slut and sellout and enabler of rape and rapacity that only the God Emperor of Rome would represent in the eyes of the Good Radicalfeminist Womyn.

Now entering, from Stage Left: Jill from Feministe, the blog that a few months ago actually featured Ren Ev as a guest blogger on many topics, which probably steamed Heart(less) that much more, considering that in her mind, only like-minded GenderBorgians should be allowed to post in “feminist’ blogs. The main point of Jill’s post was to challenge Heart’s premise that women who enjoy sex for free (or at least say that they do) are doing a bad deed for women who are actually raped and abused (or those women who Heart claims are raped and abused and degraded by association with porn or prostitution or even a simple male erection.

[Posted by Jill on 11/14/08 @ 6:41 PM]

Huh. So when I have sex with men for free. I’ve never been paid for sex (at least not explicitly — I suppose some might argue that maybe dinner counts). Am I lowering the standards to rock-bottom? I mean, all these women giving away sex for free helps to create and sustain a market for sex, which means that some men will choose to pay for it. Are all of us who have consensual not-for-pay sex now complicit in the abuse and torture of women who are trafficked, raped and otherwise brutalized?

I have very conflicted personal views on pornography (my views on whether or not it should be legal to make and distribute are far less conflicted), but I don’t buy for a minute that a woman who does porn for free because she’s making it herself — in other words, because she’s going to make money off of its eventual sale — is somehow responsible for the exploitation of other women who don’t have that same privilege. Privilege is a tricky thing to navigate, and feminism doesn’t give us clear answers, but in my understanding, neither framework is supposed to be used to beat other people over the head with. Feminism is not a tool to shame other women. Understanding the dynamics of privilege isn’t a way to bring everyone down to the lowest common denominator, or to guilt people for what they have.

We are all part of complicated systems of oppression. We are all complicit to one degree or another; the difference is, some people are outright exploitative of others and seek to cause harm. I don’t know Ren personally, but I read the same blog of hers that you do, and I cannot for the life of me understand how anyone would put her in that category.

And anyway, this post isn’t about Ren. It’s about the systematic exploitation of women. And yet somehow, the villain of choice is a sex worker herself, demonized simply because she doesn’t consider herself to be a victim? Come on.

Now…considering the usual brand of censorship that takes place at Womens’ Spaces, you’d think that that post would still be in moderation….but it was approved by Heart. Probably, because, in her mind, it enabled her to unfurl her banner, clear her throat, and unleash her pixellized wrath, and settle all the scores and vendettas that she had with Feministe for allowing a infidel and a slut like Ren Ev to post there.

The result is this long, windy, and quite telling comment that more than anything else reveals the madness behind Cheryl Lynn Seelhoff’s methods. Just sit back, relax, and allow me to be your friendly guide though this maze of bullcrap….and I’m providing running commentary all the way through just for langiappe and clarity.

[Posted by admin (Heart) on 11-15-08 @ 11:02 AM]

Jill, women having sex “for free” on their own terms in the privacy of their own bedrooms is not on a par with women creating videotapes of brutal, violent sex, or apparently brutal, violent, sex, and disseminating them over the airwaves, over the internet and into the homes and sexual psyches of however many men and boys, and girls and women for that matter, watch that stuff. Pornography and prostitution are “constructors.” We talk a lot as radical feminists, and other kinds of feminists, for that matter, about “social construction”, about the way nothing is “essential,” nothing is “inherent” or “immutable,” in other words, about the way people are not “just born that way.” People are the way they are not only because of accidents or incidents of their births but because of what they see in the world, what they learn in the world. The sexuality of little boys and little girls, of men and women who grow up seeing, or, in whatever manner, end up watching brutal sex in which women are tortured, brutalized, degraded and shamed are in fact having their sexualities *constructed* in that watching. They’re learning this is what sex is, this is what is really sexually exciting and titillating, this *humiliation of women*. This torture of and brutality towards women.

Remember, now, we are talking about “gonzo” porn here, featuring women who actually say that they not only consent to doing such stuff, but say that they enjoy the acts they do…or at least, they act like they do. Some people would say that that probably doesn’t meet the qualifications for rape, which consists of violence that is imposed without the consent of the victim (and usually with direct physical violence and injury. Some people, though, never met the likes of Cheryl Lynn Seelhoff and the Womyn Warriors of the GenderBorg, who have a…..well, a different view about consent and will and human nature.

Also note the implication that Heart raises that young impressionable girls and boys, if exposed to such evil, degrading, and essentially violent sex, will automatically respond that it must be “acceptable” and that that must be the ONLY way to engage in sex…thusly, gonzo porn (if not ALL porn) must be censored or banished to save womanhood and girlhood from the degradation of the male penis. Riiight…like rape and torture of women never existed beyond the tainted walls of a porn studio (or that men have never been abused or tortured or even raped).

Are you putting that out in the street? Are you filming this kind of sex and putting it out there for public consumption? Are you talking about what you’re doing 24/7 on your blogs in the company of, for example, guys who are the creators of extreme SM pornography and magazines affiliated with Hustler Magazine, in the company of various dungeon masters and you name it, all of whom are creating these kinds of materials — brutal, violent, degrading, humiliating sex for public view — for the general public? I don’t think you are. And no, whatever you’re doing, or other women are doing, for free in their own houses is not what I’m talking about there.

Shorter translation of Heart:That’s right, Ernest Greene…I’m calling your ass out right now, you brutal slaveholding rapist murderer male leftist MAN. You might be able to force Nina Hartley to be your concubine and “willing slave”….errrrrr….life partner and wife, and sell your brutal S&M deSade festivals and mass rapes to the public as “consensual BDSM”, and collude with that child molestor/serial racist Larry Flynt in imprisoning women with meat grinders…but we radicalfeminists are hep to ‘ya. And that goes for you too, Kink.com….we know that you were really behind Abu Gharib just fess up and admit it.

I mean, if someone puts a noose up in their yard in a threatening manner, or burns a cross, that person can do time and well they should, absolutely, because they are engaging in hate speech. If someone decorates their home, yard, business with Nazi insignia they may well do time as well. Because our society has determined at long last that at least some forms of “speech” are so destructive, so toxic, so hateful, so murderous, such a blight on the psyche of human beings that as a society we will not tolerate this kind of thing in the name of “speech.” And why? Because this kind of “speech” is only free speech for some. It’s free speech for racists. It’s free speech for white supremacists. Nobody is going to go into somebody’s home and arrest them for drawing their own pictures that only they see or for enacting their own racist scenarios, and why? Because they’re not disseminating that in the public sphere. When stuff like this is widely disseminated in the marketplace and just among the general public without legal consequences or ethical or moral sanctions — in magazines, in books, on the internet, television, movies– the message to one and all is, this is fine, this is good, there is no harm in this, this is all good times, this is free speech. And what gets lost is, for the victims of this stuff, or those who were victims and those who remember, there is no free speech. There is only, again, free speech for racists and white supremacists.

Ahhh…first off, Heart(less), most hate speech laws attempting to regulate away such actions as cross burnings and nooses on trees have been declared unconstitutional abridgments of First Amendment rights of free speech…the very same First Amendment that allows you to render your speech as well. Secondly, isn’t the answer to such “hate speech” not censorship but to simply overwhelm it with speech that promotes the truth and exposes the inherent lies and smears that such “hate speech” inevitably relies on?? Plus, burning crosses and hanging nooses on other people’s lawns isn’t just “hate speech”; it’s also tresspassing on other people’s property and threatening them implicitly….which, last time I checked, didn’t require any notions of “hate speech” to be considered illegal and actionable BEHAVIOR.

Oh…and just because such “hate speech” may be put out on the Internet or on television or in the media does not make it any more actionable merely because it is considered to be “hate speech”. Or, perhaps, you really do believe that people should be held responsible for their innermost thoughts if those thoughts don’t meet some politically correct criteria?? (I mean politically correct as in right-wing, centrist, OR left-wing standards of conduct.) If so, then that makes you, Ms. Seelhoff, to be the very person that “hate speech” laws were created to control and prevent….namely, a fascist.

And all this is to compare neo-Nazis and Klansmen and White Citizens Councilmen to…..gonzo porn starlets?!?!?!

In the same way, it’s one thing, again to do whatever a woman does in private. I’m not saying that what a woman does in private is meaningless– it is not. I think what she does in private is always political. But there’s a difference between that and filming something and sending it out into a world that basically endorses ANY — that means ANY — depiction of torture, rape, murder, humiliation of women.

Oh, I see….a woman’s private sexual affairs should be grounds for political critique and correction if those affairs don’t meet your “feminist” criteria….especially when it is used to depict “torture, rape, murder, or humiliation”.

You blog at Feministe. You know what that’s about. You read your spam queue, you read your incoming searches. You know that haters are out there 24/7 looking for incest materials, torture materials, rape materials, brutal sex, and you know what? They are finding that stuff. And they are getting off on it. And the abundance of it reassures them that there’s nuttin wrong with that, all the cool kids do it, I mean, what are women for, after all, but to be bound, gagged, tortured, humiliated, debased, why, after it’s all done, they put a big SMILE on their face, it was nuttin’ but a thing, you know?

Oh, really??? Does Heart(less) know that much about Feministe that she can read their spam queue to know that people over there are looking specifically for incest porn or kiddie porn or “brutal sex”?? Never mind that they can get plenty of that without ever setting foot in Feministe…or that they could just as well use search engines connected with sites like…Womens’ Spaces???

And what about the millions and millions of men who use the same search engines for the overwhelming majority of porn that displays….well, none of the above?? You know, like…..simple things like….single women masturbating, or couples having vanilla sex, or a couple sharing their spouses with another willing person?? Or, even…two or more WOMEN having sex??? Oh, but that doesn’t even exist in the GenderBorgian mind….ALL sex not approved by Heart IS by nature “brutal” and rape.

I don’t know whether to laugh or cry over your coming here to my blog in your, as far as I know, inaugural comment here, to scold me for “shaming” women and “beating women over the head” and for being a bad feminist. Ha. Bitter and really, really cynical ha. I think in the context of this discussion, your scolding and apparent self-righteousness are absurd. I am thinking about all of the little 12 and 13 year old girls — yes — on Myspace posting photos of themselves in degrading, debased sexual situations and positions. I am thinking of all of the little 12 and 13 year old boys all the way to one-foot-in-the-grave men getting off on what these little girls are posting. I am thinking about the way those little girls and those boys and men have the view of sexuality they do, and of women’s place and women’s bodies they do, in part because the internet, the airways, the movie houses, the theaters, the publishing world are FILLED with this kind of imagery, imagery in which women, again, are gang raped, raped, period, bound, gagged, brutalized, manhandled, cuffed around, and again, this is what women really LIKE, the message is, this is what women are FOR. And so as women and feminists we say NO, some of us, we have to say NO, this is NOT what a girl’s body is for. This is NOT what a woman’s body is for. We were not born to be gang raped. We were not born to be brutalized, tortured, bound and gagged and to LIKE it. This is not the world we created and want. When we say this, we pay for it big time, and why? Because this IS the world as many men and many boys do want it, they want it to stay that way, witness your and my spam queue, witness your and my incoming searches, read the newspapers, watch the news, all we have to do is look around.

WOW….if we are to believe Heart, MySpace is now a hotbed of kiddie porn. Really. All those teenagers in bikinis and short skirts and sports bras…you know they are really attracting the pedophiles. Now, MySpace is pretty damn hard on adult images, enough so that several adult performers have had their journals removed for even linking to their sites or even posting suggestive pictures. But 13-year-olds posing suggestively and allowing themselves to be “brutalized” and “raped”??? Fine with them!!

But all this is a moot point anyway, because, in the mind of Heart, it’s all about the MEN and the BOYZ, who seek women like Renegade Evolution and conclude from watching her that ALL women are worthy of being raped and brutalized…because that is what MEN and BOYZ REALLY, REALLY WANT!!! KIIIIIIIILLLLLLLL THEMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!1111ONETHOUSANDONEHUNDREDELEVEN!!! (Or at least, castrate them and save their sperm so that we can propagate the species.)

The demand that is created by all of the above and similar things and phenomena for brutal, misogynist sex ends up fulfilled for the most part by the most marginalized women and girls in the world — children, the poor, the abused and abandoned, drug addicts, homeless women and girls, kidnapped women and girls, women who endured the “boot camp” of rape, gang rape and incest coming up. They are openly kidnapped and trafficked throughout the world, or because of their limited options and vulnerabilities, they end up trafficked throughout the world in some other manner, and then they can’t get out because they don’t have the power to, because they are sick, because they are debilitated, imprisoned, beaten by their pimps or procurers or johns, disocciating, and so their lives are an endless, enduring hellhole of pain, torture, degradation and shame that many do not survive. The pain and torture will not end even if they are so fortunate as to find a way out. Ahead of them will be years and years of post traumatic stress and physical infirmity, often manifested as severe pain in their bodies, pain for which doctors and health professionals have few answers.

Not that I deny that any of that doesn’t exist….but what about the rest of the women whose porn experiences aren’t even close to being that brutal, Heart?? Do they even have the right to even exist?? What about the overwhelming majority of men who actually consume sex work or porn that do manage to treat their clients/performers with respect and dignity?? Do they fall through the Matrix and get dissolved into the GenderBorg Memory Hole because they don’t quite fit into your fantasy world of Woman-as-Essential-Rape-Victim and Man-As-Thrusting-Penis???

You know, my concern is about the men who are “shaming” these women and girls every moment of every day throughout the world or who can’t wait for their next opportunity to do so. My concern is for the girls and women so shamed. My concern is for every girl whose initiation into sexual encounters is or will be brutal and degrading, humiliating, because boys and men think that’s what sex is about or because the girl thinks that’s what sex is supposed to be about and she is trying to be, as a girl, what she is supposed to be. My concern is for all of the women exited or escaped from the sex trade who battle agonizing pain and debilitation every single day because of their experiences of rape, torture, brutality at the hands of men, some of whom read this blog, and not only one person, there is quite a number of women exited from the sex trade who read here. So when I encounter women who have allied themselves with powerful white, heterosexual men (Hustler and its affiliates) and who every day are making a public statement that really, brutal sex is good times, really torture is good times, when I encounter women who agree with male power that the fact that money exchanged hands equals consensual sex, I’m calling it out as publicly as it is being put out there by whoever is putting it out there, and particularly if they are identifying as profeminist. When I encounter women who do this for free because it’s just so damn much fun, guaranteed, I’m calling that out. Because what they are doing harms all of us — men and women, boys and girls — in a way that what each of us does in private never can, does or will. (Which does not mean we should not be talking a lot about what we all do in private, we should be.) What they are doing is promoting, advocating for, phenomena, practices that shore up male heterosupremacy at its very core. And in the process, of course, they shame and erase all the girls and women in the world victimized byall the men who want and buy and make this shit and who are enriched and benefitted by it, with the result that these girls and women are effectively “beaten over the head” and “shamed” for men’s sexual pleasure. I’d suggest, Jill, that your outrage might be misplaced and better directed to those who end up even more likely to be victimized because, heck, privileged white women do it for free, the cool kids do it for free, put a smile on their face and tell the whole world how great it really is, as a cast of male porn publishers, Hustler Magazine, Larry Flynt and consumers of violent, misogynist imagery applaud wildly. Yeah, that’s helpful. That really brings us closer to our full humanity as women.

Ah, yes…so the very existence of “pro-sex” and “pro-porn” feminists (or simply feminists who don’t manage to drink the GenderBorg Kool-Aid) poses a real threat of “silencing” those “prostituted women” who want to speak “the truth” about how damaging and degrading male sexuality (as expressed specifically by the kind of porn that Heart so opposes) really is….and stupid elitist, “privileged” sluts like Renegade Evolution are simply traitors and sellouts as well as mere cumdumpsters and sexbots and Sparkle Ponies who sell real women down the drain by giving approval to such “degradation” and “humiliation”.

Yeah. Just like those dirty queers and Leathermen and their public sex give real homosexuals a bad name with their spreading of HIV/AIDS and mindless pursuit of orgasms rather than searching for the true liberation of monogamy and “intimacy”. Sounds familiar, Heart???

I suppose the substance of, again, this inaugural exchange between us is somewhat unfortunate. But I tell you what, I lay awake nights thinking about how we might end the hate speech that is pornography and prostitution. Lots of us do. Because this causes grave, grave harm to girls and women. I will never stop saying that, I will never stop supporting girls and women so harmed (ALL of us) and I will never stop calling out those who are publicly insisting that really, it’s not all that. If that means I get called out for “shaming” or “beating women over the head” or being a bad feminist, then it will, I guess. I will point out, as I have here, how ludicrous that really is though. I actually do agree with you that feminism is not about shaming women or beating them over the head, but again, I think your indignation is misplaced. There are feminists who do that all the time, it’s the mainstay of their blogging careers, it’s the way they get people to read — shaming and beating other women over the head — and some of them have guest blogged at Feministe’s invitation. You might check that out.

I don’t do that kind of thing, though. You can scour my blog, you will not find it. And calling out apparently profeminist pornographers is not, I don’t think, that.

And so Heart concludes with the ultimate in projection: blaming “feminists” like Jill for allowing the likes of Ren Ev to “shame” and beat down antipornfeminists, and allowing infidels like Ren Ev to freely attack “feminists” and “silence” them.

Not at all like Heart, who has such an open door policy regarding critics of her philosophy. Just ask her friends, like Stormcloud (inventor of the infamous “Bee Anthology”, and stalker of Ren Ev, who threatened to out her to her family); or Witchy-Woo (who showed off her open-mindedness by taunting Ren Ev for her getting fired from her battered women’s shelter two years ago); or Sis/Pony (who flat out called Ren Ev a “whore” ); or Ginmar (who openly spoke that Ren was denying that she was a victim of rape when she had her nose broken recently) or….the list could go on and on, I’d dare say.

No, she doesn’t shame at all. It’s only the others who do it.

Karl Rove couldn’t have built a fascist movement much better.

Two words in conclusion for you, Ms. Cheryl Lynn Seelhoff (and this goes for the rest of the GenderBorg Collective, too): FUCK. OFF.

[Update: Ren Ev sends her finest middle finger salute here.]

Tags: nothing but the fisk, radfems go wild again

Did I say that Heart was going off the chain?? The previous example of her unrequited love for Sarah Palin was mere appetizer; now, I will present you with the full course meal of the myopia and total all-out whackiness of Cheryl Lynn Seelhoff.

The root of all this was a post that she did over at her Womens’ Spaces blog, which pretended to be a reset of Julie Bindel’s review of Shelia Jeffreys’ latest excrement on “moral feminism” titled, The Industrial Vagina (insert your own puns, Clones).

Now, in another time I will get into Ms. Bindel’s own personal myopias, which include not a wee bit of transphobia and sex shaming and the fetish of threatening to sue critics at a hat (though Natalia Antonova has plenty of detail on that at her blog here).

But I don’t want to pull you away too far, because that would remove the focus from the special form of whackadoodle thought that only the Free Soil Presidential candidate could supply….and this one would count as the grandmama of all doozies.

Let’s set the foundation, shall we?? We begin with the first comment on that thread that Heart posted to her own blog:

[posted by admin (Heart) on 11/12/08 @ 1:55 PM]

Jeffreys includes evidence from studies carried out in Australia and Canada, which shows that the average annual wage for women in brothel prostitution is just £15,000. “We need to take this discussion away from the feminist arguments about whether it is harmful to women or not,” she says, “and look at it as a massive, massive industry where the profits are not going to the women.”

I’m not sure I agree with Jeffreys that we have to take the discussion away from whether prostitution is harmful to women or not; if our argument is that women aren’t getting the profits, then the response will be that women should get the profits and the issue of women’s bodies as a consumer good is decentered, which doesn’t seem like a good direction for us to go.

What I do agree with is, most women don’t make much money via prostitution. It doesn’t help that some (like RE, don’t flame her because I don’t want to get into that here, I’m naming her because it’s the straight up thing to do, though I’m not going to link) agree to be prostituted in (gonzo) porn free of charge, without being paid at all. That really raises the bar for struggling poor women who turn to prostitution/porn for survival! “Oh, forget you, we’ve got women who will do it for FREE.”

Jeezus.

Yup…that would be Renegade Evolution — the God Emperor of Rome, Gozno Porn Queen, and Public Enemy Number ONE (and Two, and Three, and 2, 455) for all good and twoo RadicalFeminists everywhere that Heart(less) is citing for the sin of bringing “prostitiuted women” down by claiming to like “gonzo” so much that she would do it for free.

Obviously, Ren was so moved by the tribute that she posted this to WS (or, at least, it actually made it through the usual firewall that Heart drops on critics of her philosophy (also crossposted to Ren’s own blog as well):

[posted by Renegade Evolution on 11/14/08 @ 2:36 AM (also posted here)]

sigh. context, Heart, context. I, when making content of MY OWN creation, do not get paid. I do it for free because I am making it. Sometimes I have OTHER people to pay in those cases, and why would I pay myself to be in something I am making? When I am in something someone else is making, I get paid.

Lest you forget, I am not just a woman who “agrees to be prostituted in (gonzo) porn”, I am one of those evil souless pornographers as well.

Context is important after all.

However, I might do it for free for other people, because, why yes, while I do like the money, I just like doing it to do it anyway.

Now usually, Heart would either edit out or completely banish commentary from the likes of Ren….but this time, for some unexplained reason, she allowed it to stand….probably to do further shaming and embarrassment, as seen by her curt reply:

[posted by admin on 11/14/2008 @ 3:23 AM]

Context, Ren, context.

The context is the whole entire world, in which millions of impoverished women are being trafficked and/or forced into sexual servicing men, such that they are raped/tortured/brutalized in an ongoing way. They have no choice.

When you — a degreed, privileged, middle class American — revel in your freedom to create pornography free of charge, you certainly do not raise the bar for anyone in the group I just described. That was my point. It doesn’t matter if somebody else makes it and you do it free or if you make it and you do it free, you do it free because you can, you write about it here on the internet because you can, the result is the normalizing of sexual brutality, rape and torture, and all the women who can’t– millions of them– suffer for that.

That was my point. So yeah, context. So far as your personal preferences and likes and dislikes and so on, I don’t think they’re germane to this particular thread.

Yeah…I reserve the right to use this blog to seriously bust your ass for being such a total slut and for selling women down the drain for loving (or pretending to love) degrading, violent sex that leads directly to women and girls being raped and abused and despoiled through “bad” and nasty sex…not to mention, torture, cliterectomies, foot-binding, and all other oppressions of women worldwide. But, your personal sex life is not germane to this argument..especially when you choose to defend it.

Plus….since when did “middle class” become privileged??? And if Ren does decide to create porn “free of charge”, how in the hell does that affect in any way those women who get paid for their efforts?? Because she sends a message that women might actually do porn because — horrors of all horrors — they actually LIKE SEX?!?!?! Naaaaaah…must be the Patriarchy working its evil hand again!!

And, of course, Ren’s personal choices now become responsible for not only porn’s evil, but EVERY woman being raped or physically assaulted…and she hasn’t even made a single video for the popular market yet. Not bad for a single Henchwoman.

Quite naturally, some of Heart’s regular peeps decide to get their chomps in. Here’s Sis (formerly known as Pony):

[posted by Sis on 11/14/08 @ 5:23 AM]

I am truly sickened by RE’s contention that her ‘choice’ to be raped, gang banged and brutalized, and to depict those aberrations, should be the measure of those activities. No well person chooses to be raped, or thinks it’s not a brutality, even if she’s smiling while it happens. I’m not responding to her. I just won’t leave her post uncommented on, except by you.

Notice again the typical analogy: gangbanging is the same as rape, even when the woman absolutely consents to it (the gangbang, of course), and even when the woman is shown to absolutely revel in it. And I guess that the mere sight of a large erect penis entering a woman’s vagina, regardless of the intent of the owner of said penis or the willing consent of the owner of said vagina, would still, in Sis’s mind, be considered brutal rape….merely because of the nature of the erection. Only someone who is really sick in the head (or just a “bi-sexee, hot sexbot” who mindlessly kneels at The Cock) would ever think any different.

Since Ren Ev is not one to cut and run, she decided to rebut Heart(less)’s challenge. Unfortunately, this comment, unlike the first, not only did not make it out of moderation, So, we have to go back over to Ren’s blog for the rebuttal:

Well, Cheryl, call me a stickler for details. When I quote someone or allude to what they’ve said, I consider it good form and ethical to link to their own words, so people can actually see what’s really there, and not someone else’s take on it. It is, in countless ways, considered proper procedure and form.

And since we’re playing this game, let me lay this out real simple for you: Yeah, I have degrees- that being in the sex industry paid for. Do I have some privileges? Absolutely. Do I lack others? Absolutely. Am I middle class? Now, yeah, barely…like a whole hell of a lot of other people out there, yourself included. But I can assure you, I came from far less than middle class- far less- and yeah, you can bet money I am not going back if there is anything I can do about it. And I can, so I do. What has me where I am now? Sex work.

And for a moment, think about this take on it: logically- in any capitalist industry, those who do the employing are far more likely to employ those who will work for free than those who want any sort of payment at all. It’s simply a logical business theory, and porn is a business. So if I do gonzo or whatever else for free or for less, well, I am doing it and perhaps one less woman who doesn’t want to is.

As for the internet, well, I have just as much right to be here talking about what I think as you do, and why yes, I know you are not saying I don’t, but if you think I’m the only person out there who is into “sexual brutality”, even the only female one…well, hate to disappoint, but there are a whole lot of us out here. And in a world where any sort of “sexual deviancy” from homosexuality to BDSM can be written off by many as a mental illness or countless other things, sure enough, I am all for talking about it and seeing non-criminal and consenting acts of such thing normalized.

Millions of humans suffer so we can drive cars, use computers, wear clothes, eat food, and have countless other things. It sucks, and it’s harsh, but it’s true. I think you also know, agree with my methods or not, I do what I can to help people in the sex industry who do not want to be there. And frankly, if you think I am some cold-blooded sellout, well, I don’t care. Everyone needs their demons, right? Hell, I even respect some of the work you do, I’ve said before and I’m sure I’ll say again your site is an excellent source of information on world news regarding women, but I think you have a very one sided and ill-informed view of the whole of the sex industry, the people in it, and what needs to be done. I also know from interacting with you that you do not care to hear from people, even victims, who do not share your view. You’ve made that plainly evident. And yeah, you can quote me on that too.

And then, she decided to answer Sis’s drive-by (as well as one from Satsuma (aka She Who Knows The Lesbian Gaze) as well…but this one didn’t even make it TO moderation, because it seems that Heart decided to permanently banish Ren Ev from posting ever again through her trusty “auto-delete” function. Once again, Ren posted it to her own blog:

Here is what I said: Sis- You have no idea, do you? I have never been raped, ever. Do you fucking know me? Do you know what I like? I would NEVER presume the same for you. And I do not forget your lies about me, even with the new name.

Satsuma: “No mentally healthy woman who had true options would do any of this, and all the pro-porn people are well aware of this.”

Hah. we wouldn’t? Sure. I am a little off, but so are you. Do you really want to compare options?

Ahhh…but it gets so much better…just wait until you get a load of what Heart and the crew do to another feminist who attempts to challenge their nonsense. That deserves a full fisking in and of itself…and that will be my next blog project. Stay tuned….